That question that you asked Todd about what word do you apply for ELCA to LCMS or vice versa is important. J. Gresham Machen all the way back in 1923 gave Todd's answer. And at least on the orthodox side more and more would agree. But this has been a layperson and boomer and older generation issue. Those generations and probably still a majority of laypeople would not be so clear, and unwilling to use conversion meaning it is a different religion.
That's pretty good. It's become a standard part of my preaching/teaching, the distinction between the faith which believes and the faith which is believed. That you have to have both. What you capture as Catholic Roots and Pentacostal Fire. You really should know what exactly you are receiving in any sacrament. Who are you worshipping? What fire is kindled?
Because most of my career life I was in NY, I used to write occasionally for what I took as a local expression Lutheranism. It was a perfect example of something that had been orthodox and an important reminder that not everything was Prussian, but its commitment to pan-Lutheranism broke it. It was not ecumenical anymore but an exercise in syncretism. It was the treason of the clerics there, and the laity that remained wouldn't stomach much questioning of the path. Longer ago than I want to admit I was working on an article meditating on "removal of lampstands (Rev 2:5)." The gist was, I wondered how many lampstands were actually still present, given how sick so many of our congregations were, and how we refused to repent or even consider pondering what our sins might be. They weren't interested in it.
Re: Of all the former Catholics, 56% become religious “nones” and 32% become Protestant.
What may be be deceptive about such stats is that they may fail to capture what happens over a period of years with such people-- specifically if they drop out of a religion becoming a "None", but some time later, take up a new church. That describes my journey when I was younger (Catholic->None->Orthodox) and when I talk to people at my church who have recently joined, or are in the process of doing so, it describes their journey too quite often: They were unchurched for a while before finding faith anew in Orthodoxy.
‘As “religion” fades, “magic” rises.’ Perhaps they’re both just examples of humanity’s deep seated psychological/emotional need for hope/faith in an easier, less frightening/painful tomorrow?
That question that you asked Todd about what word do you apply for ELCA to LCMS or vice versa is important. J. Gresham Machen all the way back in 1923 gave Todd's answer. And at least on the orthodox side more and more would agree. But this has been a layperson and boomer and older generation issue. Those generations and probably still a majority of laypeople would not be so clear, and unwilling to use conversion meaning it is a different religion.
Check this out and let me know what you think: https://www.tmatt.net/freelance/liturgical-dances-with-wolves
That's pretty good. It's become a standard part of my preaching/teaching, the distinction between the faith which believes and the faith which is believed. That you have to have both. What you capture as Catholic Roots and Pentacostal Fire. You really should know what exactly you are receiving in any sacrament. Who are you worshipping? What fire is kindled?
Because most of my career life I was in NY, I used to write occasionally for what I took as a local expression Lutheranism. It was a perfect example of something that had been orthodox and an important reminder that not everything was Prussian, but its commitment to pan-Lutheranism broke it. It was not ecumenical anymore but an exercise in syncretism. It was the treason of the clerics there, and the laity that remained wouldn't stomach much questioning of the path. Longer ago than I want to admit I was working on an article meditating on "removal of lampstands (Rev 2:5)." The gist was, I wondered how many lampstands were actually still present, given how sick so many of our congregations were, and how we refused to repent or even consider pondering what our sins might be. They weren't interested in it.
Re: Of all the former Catholics, 56% become religious “nones” and 32% become Protestant.
What may be be deceptive about such stats is that they may fail to capture what happens over a period of years with such people-- specifically if they drop out of a religion becoming a "None", but some time later, take up a new church. That describes my journey when I was younger (Catholic->None->Orthodox) and when I talk to people at my church who have recently joined, or are in the process of doing so, it describes their journey too quite often: They were unchurched for a while before finding faith anew in Orthodoxy.
‘As “religion” fades, “magic” rises.’ Perhaps they’re both just examples of humanity’s deep seated psychological/emotional need for hope/faith in an easier, less frightening/painful tomorrow?
Some very interesting distinctions beneath the surface labels. Thanks for diving in.
The crucial questions are linked to parishes that are shrinking, while others grow. This is the issue with Rome and the East
Agreed.