Surely the simple answer is that at least entertainment media-wise we’re surrounded by the perception that everyone’s already having sex long before marriage, and there’s no part of that content that shows wedding-night sex as different from regular sex. Combine that with the fact that all couples, married or otherwise, are having less sex than they used to, and I can see why the quiz writer didn’t see anything noteworthy about sex to end the wedding day.
Back to the original issue: there is no choice “F. Make love all night long with my beloved.” — because the couple already “knows “ each other. Choices A thru E demonstrate a disordered society. The couple not only doesn’t know each other, they also don’t know what’s going on, and ultimately going wrong.
In the Catholic tradition, the actual marriage isn't even valid until it is consummated, and must be consummated with no unnatural barriers to either love or life. They offer their bodies as total gift to each other and God's will. The real marriage is only complete then, not when the celebrant at the ceremony says they are man and wife.
I am comparing this teaching to the NYT list of options, and it illuminates the difference of priorities. How perfect is a wedding day if after the end of it the bride and groom aren't married?
Many gpod priests are but many are shy and embarrassed and don't want to turn the couple away from marriage- period. Contraception and cohabitation are often a "don't ask don't tell type of a thing. " (I say that from personal experience). But I will underscore that the priests and pre cana classes are getting much better at it. Our archdiocese requires engaged couples to attend at least one nFP series of classes.
36 years ago, no one in our pre Cana marriage training spoke about NFP, except one shy offer of a calendar rhythm brochure, which I declined (and then laughed about). Now the church no longer advocates for the rhythm method (thank goodness), but instead has some amazing methods of family planning that heal women's bodies, shows women how their bodies work, strengthen couples intimacy, help to achieve or avoid pregnancy naturally and always open to God's will. My husband is not Catholic, but a year after we began using the Creighton Model of NFP, he said " why weren't we using this before?"
It is not uncommon to find that Catholics who convert to Orthodoxy do so because they clashed with Catholic parish leaders on family issues of these kinds.
Obviously. Hollywood is Hollywood, but the Orthodox struggle with the culture like everyone else. No one would claim otherwise. The word “strive” is crucial.
This was an interesting article. The observation about the NYT wanting to destroy religious certainty is preceptive because the destruction of so-called naive faith is a cornerstone of Charles Taylor's history of secularism. (Even if you have a belief, it exists in a intellectual landscape that includes reasonable doubt). It would make perfect sense that journalists, who are in many ways the priests of the secular order, would actively engage in suppressing certainty.
Great question! I think it's the bias against the boring work of being, well, adults and making solid decisions that shaped these options. All these options assume one is in a "forever partying 24/7 without concern as to how to pay for these fiscally and mentally, emphasis placed on the former" mentality.
As opposed to the worldview that the whole biblical view of marriage died long ago? The ghost here is, methinks, cohabitation. "Invite friends back to our house"?
Yeah, that, too. It doesn't sound very adult when one "invites friends back to our house" and doesn't deal with the fallout that may result from this. You're supposed to be committing to one person for the rest of your life and then that very same day you're going to break the vow with someone who may be secretly upset that you chose The Other?
Surely the simple answer is that at least entertainment media-wise we’re surrounded by the perception that everyone’s already having sex long before marriage, and there’s no part of that content that shows wedding-night sex as different from regular sex. Combine that with the fact that all couples, married or otherwise, are having less sex than they used to, and I can see why the quiz writer didn’t see anything noteworthy about sex to end the wedding day.
Back to the original issue: there is no choice “F. Make love all night long with my beloved.” — because the couple already “knows “ each other. Choices A thru E demonstrate a disordered society. The couple not only doesn’t know each other, they also don’t know what’s going on, and ultimately going wrong.
The world that most of us inhabit…..
Yep, they're already a little bored with it.
In the Catholic tradition, the actual marriage isn't even valid until it is consummated, and must be consummated with no unnatural barriers to either love or life. They offer their bodies as total gift to each other and God's will. The real marriage is only complete then, not when the celebrant at the ceremony says they are man and wife.
I am comparing this teaching to the NYT list of options, and it illuminates the difference of priorities. How perfect is a wedding day if after the end of it the bride and groom aren't married?
Well, the norm is cohabitation. Are priests standing strong on this in premarital counseling?
Sadly, tho, marriage is
a rare thing these days. The irony is that co habitation prior to marriage is a huge predictor of divorce.
Many gpod priests are but many are shy and embarrassed and don't want to turn the couple away from marriage- period. Contraception and cohabitation are often a "don't ask don't tell type of a thing. " (I say that from personal experience). But I will underscore that the priests and pre cana classes are getting much better at it. Our archdiocese requires engaged couples to attend at least one nFP series of classes.
36 years ago, no one in our pre Cana marriage training spoke about NFP, except one shy offer of a calendar rhythm brochure, which I declined (and then laughed about). Now the church no longer advocates for the rhythm method (thank goodness), but instead has some amazing methods of family planning that heal women's bodies, shows women how their bodies work, strengthen couples intimacy, help to achieve or avoid pregnancy naturally and always open to God's will. My husband is not Catholic, but a year after we began using the Creighton Model of NFP, he said " why weren't we using this before?"
It is not uncommon to find that Catholics who convert to Orthodoxy do so because they clashed with Catholic parish leaders on family issues of these kinds.
So some of the views in My Big Fat Greek Wedding (s) may or may not represent you all very well? :)
Obviously. Hollywood is Hollywood, but the Orthodox struggle with the culture like everyone else. No one would claim otherwise. The word “strive” is crucial.
I share this secular article about co habitation with young friends and family that I care about.
https://www.artofmanliness.com/people/family/live-together-marriage/
This was an interesting article. The observation about the NYT wanting to destroy religious certainty is preceptive because the destruction of so-called naive faith is a cornerstone of Charles Taylor's history of secularism. (Even if you have a belief, it exists in a intellectual landscape that includes reasonable doubt). It would make perfect sense that journalists, who are in many ways the priests of the secular order, would actively engage in suppressing certainty.
Thanks for writting this.
Now, debates between GOOD religion, from NYTimes point of view and BAD religion, ditto, can be news. But will the Times do fair coverage of heretics?
Great question! I think it's the bias against the boring work of being, well, adults and making solid decisions that shaped these options. All these options assume one is in a "forever partying 24/7 without concern as to how to pay for these fiscally and mentally, emphasis placed on the former" mentality.
As opposed to the worldview that the whole biblical view of marriage died long ago? The ghost here is, methinks, cohabitation. "Invite friends back to our house"?
Yeah, that, too. It doesn't sound very adult when one "invites friends back to our house" and doesn't deal with the fallout that may result from this. You're supposed to be committing to one person for the rest of your life and then that very same day you're going to break the vow with someone who may be secretly upset that you chose The Other?
All in all, doesn't sound very mature to me.